RhyssaFireheart (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rhyssafireheart) wrote2007-12-12 03:54 pm
rhyssafireheart) wrote2007-12-12 03:54 pm
Entry tags:
Breaking the Bank – EQ2 and the broker
The broker – an EQ2 player’s one-stop source for purchasing craftables, collectables and other fun items. I’ve only been back playing EQ2 for about a month or so now (started up yet again about a week before the Rise of Kunark (RoK) expansion was released) but utilizing the broker was one of the first things I did. When I played WoW, using the auction house was pretty integral to buying and selling items as well, so working the EQ2 broker was a natural step. The broker saves time, can make you money and actually provides me lots of enjoyment.
I’ll be the first to admit that numbers aren’t my thing. I used to screw my checkbook up using a calculator back when I was single. However, playing the broker game can be a fun challenge; at least I find it so. Some items are so common that they aren’t worth putting up for sale, harvestable items mostly. I’d rather hold off on selling that stack of Antonican coffee beans until I eventually start crafting or just destroy them over letting it sit in the broker for days on end at 2c each. The market is flooded for most harvestables, especially at the level I’m gathering at (TS right now, so tier 3?). The rares are a different matter; they are saleable at any level.
Even if I can’t play on a particular day, I try to jump online to check my broker sales. It’s a treat to see what has sold (and hasn’t sold) and how much money I’ve made. I’m currently level 29.5 and I have 95g in the bank. That’s what I’ve saved. Some of my gear may need upgrading, but pretty much all of it is level 20+ so it’s not that bad either. I went on a spending spree the other day decorating my basic one room apartment in Willow Wood, and I’m seriously considering getting a two room apartment just so I can have more to decorate and an excuse to buy more stuff (and get a third vendor slot, but that’s a true bonus). Like I said in guild chat the other evening, I’m having almost more fun decorating my house than I did playing Barbies as a kid.
So it’s not like I haven’t been spending any coin ingame. I’ve had several moments where I’m going through coin like it’s water, yet I’ve still managed to acquire almost 1p. This is far more coin than I’ve ever had at any point of my EQ2 playing career. The majority of that coin has been gained through playing the broker.
Compared to the WoW auction house (as of when I quit playing WoW, mind you, there may have been changes since), I like the EQ2 broker so much more. You have vendor slots tied in with your house, and can place any type of container within these slots to hold your items for sale. There’s a separate window that shows exactly what you have in the container, the basic price for the item (e.g. the minimum you should be able to get from selling it to a vendor) and whether or not it’s listed as for sale. What think is the best part though – selecting an item and then clicking the little button that says “Search Broker.” This will pull up all items that match your item. Occasionally you’ll have multiple hits for the name, for example getting “Pristine blahblah Linen Scarf” when searching “Linen Scarf,” but mostly you just get a list of that item which is for sale. The default is from lowest price to highest, so it’s convenient for trying to decide how to price your stuff.
“But, Rhyssa! This is all pretty basic and anyone that’s used the broker more than once realizes everything you’ve written so far.” True enough, but giving a bit of an overview isn’t a bad idea. Because here’s where my rant comes in – the “pricing your stuff for a quick sale” point. As I mentioned above, I’m not a huge fan of playing with numbers. Math was never my favorite subject and to this day, I still don’t care for it. Yet somehow, playing with the prices on the broker is fun to me. I seem to have no problem understanding the basic concept of how to competitively price my items for a quick(er) sale, so my question is why do so many other people not understand this concept?
Here’s a screenshot I took the other day when I logged on to check my broker (working from home is so much fun).
Sorry it’s a bit blurry, but I had to size the image down somewhat. I also blurred out the names of the other sellers because I don’t want to single them out in particular, this item was just the one that I felt like using as an example.
I’m selling a Fireshield (Adept 1) spellbook. Nothing unusual and as you can see, there are several other people doing the same. At the time I took the screenshot, I was the third lowest listing (under Darema). The important thing that you have to know about listing items for sale is the percentage amount of commission the broker adds to the sale price. My character is based out of Qeynos, so all my sales have 20% added to them. It’s the same for anything I buy from characters based out of Kelethin as well. However, items listed for sale from Freeport, Neriak or Gorowyn have 40% commission added to them from my point of view and vice versa for characters based out of those locations (Freeport/Neriak residents see 20% from their own faction, 40% from the others). It’s a logical system really since you’re being charged double commission for buying across faction lines.
So when I’m pricing something, I take into account the commission for the lowest priced item showing when I’m deciding what I’m going to list my stuff for. I think in terms of another Qeynosian or Kelethinian resident buying my items though, since I can’t price for the cross faction buyers. It would be far too troublesome. Selecting an item for sale will show you what price the seller actually set and what the commission comes to. Using the image above as an example, here are the total prices, seller price + commission and percentage/city for the seven copies of Fireshield that are listed for sale:
There’s a pretty wide spread of prices there and you can tell a few things just by looking at these prices and the cities. For the two highest listings, my guess is that the sellers listed these items for sale and haven’t returned to check the market since. It happens, which is one of the reasons I periodically check everything I have for sale to make sure the market hasn’t dropped too far below me. You also need to consider the 40% markup for the highest price because it’s cross faction, but even without that, 7g is far above the going rate at the moment.
The next two highest prices are both from Gorowyn and you can see that one is just slightly below the other. This makes complete sense although a 15s drop is a bit much, in my opinion. My own listing is lower yet, but because my items only get the 20% markup from my point of view, I can ask the same 3g as the person above me and still be lower in price overall. Good for me. The second lowest price there is doing exactly what I do when I’m underbidding someone – list for 5s less. Undercutting someone in the market is a game in increments. Sometimes I’ll only take off 2-3s from the price, sometimes 5s, but either way I keep the amount as close to the next highest bid as I can in an effort to maximize how much money I’ll make. If I were to underbid that person, I’d go 3s under his price.
But then we have the lowest price showing. This person decided to undercut the market by 70s. They are certainly free to put whatever price they want, but now if I want to have the lowest price, I need to cut my price even more for a slimmer margin. And if someone else comes in wanting to list a Fireshield spellbook for sale, they are forced to go even lower. It depresses the market.
While this example isn’t the worst case of undercutting that I’ve seen (there is another version I’ll explain in a bit), it’s definitely a good sample. Some people seem to just want to list their items for something that comes out to be the lowest price and be on their way. Some people figure that listing their foozle for half of the next guy is a better way of doing things. And while that will work, in the long run it’s bad for everyone, especially the seller. If listing your item for 1g means it will sell faster than the person asking 2g, that’s good. But if your buyer wanted that particular item, what are the chances they would have paid 1g 90s instead of 2g? Maybe good, maybe not, but isn’t the chance that you can make an additional 90s a good thing? It’s possible you might end up in an undercutting war, with the other person going 5s under your price, so you do the same in return and eventually the price ends up down at 1g anyways, but if the chance of making a bit more money is there you might as well try for it.
Now before someone gets the wrong idea, I’m certainly not advocating that you need to charge an arm and a leg (virtual though they may be) for something. I think some of the prices begin asked for collectables and craftables is outrageous, especially when I’m looking to fill in a few of my active collections or buy an item for my house. There is getting a fair price for something and then there is absolutely raping your customers for all you can squeeze from them. The best part of asking for way too much money is that the market will eventually work its way back down depending on the supply of the item in demand. If something isn’t selling at 10g, you ask 9g. If not at 9g, you go down to 8g. It’s a pretty logical procession. But if you have a market already established, you shouldn’t need to make such dramatic drops in price in order to get the sale.
When there are many of the same items for sale, it’s understandable to want yours to sell as quickly as possible. Having too many of an item is almost worse than having only a few, because an overabundance means the chances of making much profit at all is slim to nil. When the going price is 2c for something (1c + 1c commission) then the deciding factor is the alphabetical listing by seller name. Nothing you do will make your stack of Antonican coffee beans sell any faster in this instance.
The other example of bad pricing is where the seller doesn’t pay attention when listing their item for sale. When you drop your foozle in the vendor slot, the broker puts a default price that it will ask for in for you. You then have the choice to set a different price or accept this default. Most of the time, you set the price higher because that is how the market is going. Sometimes though, something just isn’t selling and the going price is the same as the default or a few coppers over. When you list an item for the default broker price though, the “yes” that shows an item is for sale is red instead of white, just as a way of letting you know you are at the default broker price already. Setting the price any lower than this default wouldn’t make sense because you could simply sell to an NPC merchant and get a better price. Makes sense, right?
Yet I have run in plenty of instances were someone has marked their item for sale at lower than the broker default price. Why on earth would you do this? If you drop an item in your vendor slots, say Advance Craftsman 20, the default broker price given is 16s 20c. You can sell this to an NPC for that price. Yet I have seen prices as low as 12s for this item. I know because I happen to have 3 copies for sale right now and that’s at the default price. Why on earth would someone go below the broker default price to list their stuff when at that point, you’d make more money going to an NPC? In one case, there was a low level axe I had been trying to sell for over a week, so I finally decided to sell it to an NPC. Just to confirm the pricing, I pulled it from the broker, went to the NPC to see what I would get – 11s 20c. Not bad. Then I went back to the broker to see what prices for this axe were like. There were two others listed for sale for less than the NPC price, the lowest by a fairly significant amount. So I bought both and sold them to the NPC for more money than I paid. While the sellers were no doubt thinking, “Cool! That axe finally sold!” I’m thinking “I made money on that deal.”
I guess the rant part of this is about the people who don’t seem to play the broker game with any logic. That 95g I said I’ve made so far? It’s almost all from brokering things. The most I’ve had anyone pay for something I’ve sold is 18g for a collectable. Even if all I’m making is 95s on something, it all adds up fairly quickly. But I’ve made all this coin by being smart and playing the broker game with some consistency and common sense.
I really only have two suggestions or tips for people using the broker. First, when listing something for sale, it’s best to undercut the lowest price by no more than 5s, 10s maximum. You can go lower, but then you run the risk of getting undercut yourself by a fair amount, meaning you have to go lower, then the other person goes lower and that leads to a quick downward spiral. At least if you price downward in small increments, the chances of the price getting too low too quickly are lessened. Second, don’t ever price below the suggested broker default. If your item isn’t selling at the default price, then it’s better to either hold on to the item for a time when the market is better, save it for an alt or just outright sell to an NPC. Any of those suggestions is better than selling an item for less than what you can get from an NPC. And third (yes, I know I said two), have fun. I treat this as a safe game to play with virtual money and while my husband might laugh at me getting so excited about selling an item for 18g, it’s much safer than playing the real world stock market equivalent.
I’ll be the first to admit that numbers aren’t my thing. I used to screw my checkbook up using a calculator back when I was single. However, playing the broker game can be a fun challenge; at least I find it so. Some items are so common that they aren’t worth putting up for sale, harvestable items mostly. I’d rather hold off on selling that stack of Antonican coffee beans until I eventually start crafting or just destroy them over letting it sit in the broker for days on end at 2c each. The market is flooded for most harvestables, especially at the level I’m gathering at (TS right now, so tier 3?). The rares are a different matter; they are saleable at any level.
Even if I can’t play on a particular day, I try to jump online to check my broker sales. It’s a treat to see what has sold (and hasn’t sold) and how much money I’ve made. I’m currently level 29.5 and I have 95g in the bank. That’s what I’ve saved. Some of my gear may need upgrading, but pretty much all of it is level 20+ so it’s not that bad either. I went on a spending spree the other day decorating my basic one room apartment in Willow Wood, and I’m seriously considering getting a two room apartment just so I can have more to decorate and an excuse to buy more stuff (and get a third vendor slot, but that’s a true bonus). Like I said in guild chat the other evening, I’m having almost more fun decorating my house than I did playing Barbies as a kid.
So it’s not like I haven’t been spending any coin ingame. I’ve had several moments where I’m going through coin like it’s water, yet I’ve still managed to acquire almost 1p. This is far more coin than I’ve ever had at any point of my EQ2 playing career. The majority of that coin has been gained through playing the broker.
Compared to the WoW auction house (as of when I quit playing WoW, mind you, there may have been changes since), I like the EQ2 broker so much more. You have vendor slots tied in with your house, and can place any type of container within these slots to hold your items for sale. There’s a separate window that shows exactly what you have in the container, the basic price for the item (e.g. the minimum you should be able to get from selling it to a vendor) and whether or not it’s listed as for sale. What think is the best part though – selecting an item and then clicking the little button that says “Search Broker.” This will pull up all items that match your item. Occasionally you’ll have multiple hits for the name, for example getting “Pristine blahblah Linen Scarf” when searching “Linen Scarf,” but mostly you just get a list of that item which is for sale. The default is from lowest price to highest, so it’s convenient for trying to decide how to price your stuff.
“But, Rhyssa! This is all pretty basic and anyone that’s used the broker more than once realizes everything you’ve written so far.” True enough, but giving a bit of an overview isn’t a bad idea. Because here’s where my rant comes in – the “pricing your stuff for a quick sale” point. As I mentioned above, I’m not a huge fan of playing with numbers. Math was never my favorite subject and to this day, I still don’t care for it. Yet somehow, playing with the prices on the broker is fun to me. I seem to have no problem understanding the basic concept of how to competitively price my items for a quick(er) sale, so my question is why do so many other people not understand this concept?
Here’s a screenshot I took the other day when I logged on to check my broker (working from home is so much fun).
Sorry it’s a bit blurry, but I had to size the image down somewhat. I also blurred out the names of the other sellers because I don’t want to single them out in particular, this item was just the one that I felt like using as an example.
I’m selling a Fireshield (Adept 1) spellbook. Nothing unusual and as you can see, there are several other people doing the same. At the time I took the screenshot, I was the third lowest listing (under Darema). The important thing that you have to know about listing items for sale is the percentage amount of commission the broker adds to the sale price. My character is based out of Qeynos, so all my sales have 20% added to them. It’s the same for anything I buy from characters based out of Kelethin as well. However, items listed for sale from Freeport, Neriak or Gorowyn have 40% commission added to them from my point of view and vice versa for characters based out of those locations (Freeport/Neriak residents see 20% from their own faction, 40% from the others). It’s a logical system really since you’re being charged double commission for buying across faction lines.
So when I’m pricing something, I take into account the commission for the lowest priced item showing when I’m deciding what I’m going to list my stuff for. I think in terms of another Qeynosian or Kelethinian resident buying my items though, since I can’t price for the cross faction buyers. It would be far too troublesome. Selecting an item for sale will show you what price the seller actually set and what the commission comes to. Using the image above as an example, here are the total prices, seller price + commission and percentage/city for the seven copies of Fireshield that are listed for sale:
- 2g 70s = 2g 25s + 45s (20% Kelethin)
- 3g 54s = 2g 95s + 59s (20% Qeynos)
- 3g 60s = 3g + 60s (20% Qeynos) my listing
- 4g 20s = 3g + 1g 20s (40% Gorowyn)
- 4g 41s = 3g 15s + 1g 26s (40% Gorowyn)
- 7g 20s = 6g + 1g 20s (20% Qeynos)
- 9g 80s = 7g + 2g 80s (40% Freeport)
There’s a pretty wide spread of prices there and you can tell a few things just by looking at these prices and the cities. For the two highest listings, my guess is that the sellers listed these items for sale and haven’t returned to check the market since. It happens, which is one of the reasons I periodically check everything I have for sale to make sure the market hasn’t dropped too far below me. You also need to consider the 40% markup for the highest price because it’s cross faction, but even without that, 7g is far above the going rate at the moment.
The next two highest prices are both from Gorowyn and you can see that one is just slightly below the other. This makes complete sense although a 15s drop is a bit much, in my opinion. My own listing is lower yet, but because my items only get the 20% markup from my point of view, I can ask the same 3g as the person above me and still be lower in price overall. Good for me. The second lowest price there is doing exactly what I do when I’m underbidding someone – list for 5s less. Undercutting someone in the market is a game in increments. Sometimes I’ll only take off 2-3s from the price, sometimes 5s, but either way I keep the amount as close to the next highest bid as I can in an effort to maximize how much money I’ll make. If I were to underbid that person, I’d go 3s under his price.
But then we have the lowest price showing. This person decided to undercut the market by 70s. They are certainly free to put whatever price they want, but now if I want to have the lowest price, I need to cut my price even more for a slimmer margin. And if someone else comes in wanting to list a Fireshield spellbook for sale, they are forced to go even lower. It depresses the market.
While this example isn’t the worst case of undercutting that I’ve seen (there is another version I’ll explain in a bit), it’s definitely a good sample. Some people seem to just want to list their items for something that comes out to be the lowest price and be on their way. Some people figure that listing their foozle for half of the next guy is a better way of doing things. And while that will work, in the long run it’s bad for everyone, especially the seller. If listing your item for 1g means it will sell faster than the person asking 2g, that’s good. But if your buyer wanted that particular item, what are the chances they would have paid 1g 90s instead of 2g? Maybe good, maybe not, but isn’t the chance that you can make an additional 90s a good thing? It’s possible you might end up in an undercutting war, with the other person going 5s under your price, so you do the same in return and eventually the price ends up down at 1g anyways, but if the chance of making a bit more money is there you might as well try for it.
Now before someone gets the wrong idea, I’m certainly not advocating that you need to charge an arm and a leg (virtual though they may be) for something. I think some of the prices begin asked for collectables and craftables is outrageous, especially when I’m looking to fill in a few of my active collections or buy an item for my house. There is getting a fair price for something and then there is absolutely raping your customers for all you can squeeze from them. The best part of asking for way too much money is that the market will eventually work its way back down depending on the supply of the item in demand. If something isn’t selling at 10g, you ask 9g. If not at 9g, you go down to 8g. It’s a pretty logical procession. But if you have a market already established, you shouldn’t need to make such dramatic drops in price in order to get the sale.
When there are many of the same items for sale, it’s understandable to want yours to sell as quickly as possible. Having too many of an item is almost worse than having only a few, because an overabundance means the chances of making much profit at all is slim to nil. When the going price is 2c for something (1c + 1c commission) then the deciding factor is the alphabetical listing by seller name. Nothing you do will make your stack of Antonican coffee beans sell any faster in this instance.
The other example of bad pricing is where the seller doesn’t pay attention when listing their item for sale. When you drop your foozle in the vendor slot, the broker puts a default price that it will ask for in for you. You then have the choice to set a different price or accept this default. Most of the time, you set the price higher because that is how the market is going. Sometimes though, something just isn’t selling and the going price is the same as the default or a few coppers over. When you list an item for the default broker price though, the “yes” that shows an item is for sale is red instead of white, just as a way of letting you know you are at the default broker price already. Setting the price any lower than this default wouldn’t make sense because you could simply sell to an NPC merchant and get a better price. Makes sense, right?
Yet I have run in plenty of instances were someone has marked their item for sale at lower than the broker default price. Why on earth would you do this? If you drop an item in your vendor slots, say Advance Craftsman 20, the default broker price given is 16s 20c. You can sell this to an NPC for that price. Yet I have seen prices as low as 12s for this item. I know because I happen to have 3 copies for sale right now and that’s at the default price. Why on earth would someone go below the broker default price to list their stuff when at that point, you’d make more money going to an NPC? In one case, there was a low level axe I had been trying to sell for over a week, so I finally decided to sell it to an NPC. Just to confirm the pricing, I pulled it from the broker, went to the NPC to see what I would get – 11s 20c. Not bad. Then I went back to the broker to see what prices for this axe were like. There were two others listed for sale for less than the NPC price, the lowest by a fairly significant amount. So I bought both and sold them to the NPC for more money than I paid. While the sellers were no doubt thinking, “Cool! That axe finally sold!” I’m thinking “I made money on that deal.”
I guess the rant part of this is about the people who don’t seem to play the broker game with any logic. That 95g I said I’ve made so far? It’s almost all from brokering things. The most I’ve had anyone pay for something I’ve sold is 18g for a collectable. Even if all I’m making is 95s on something, it all adds up fairly quickly. But I’ve made all this coin by being smart and playing the broker game with some consistency and common sense.
I really only have two suggestions or tips for people using the broker. First, when listing something for sale, it’s best to undercut the lowest price by no more than 5s, 10s maximum. You can go lower, but then you run the risk of getting undercut yourself by a fair amount, meaning you have to go lower, then the other person goes lower and that leads to a quick downward spiral. At least if you price downward in small increments, the chances of the price getting too low too quickly are lessened. Second, don’t ever price below the suggested broker default. If your item isn’t selling at the default price, then it’s better to either hold on to the item for a time when the market is better, save it for an alt or just outright sell to an NPC. Any of those suggestions is better than selling an item for less than what you can get from an NPC. And third (yes, I know I said two), have fun. I treat this as a safe game to play with virtual money and while my husband might laugh at me getting so excited about selling an item for 18g, it’s much safer than playing the real world stock market equivalent.
Grimwell sez...
(Anonymous) 2007-12-13 06:47 am (UTC)(link)..or broker boxes for your house. :)
For the most part I do exactly what you do. I only sell on broker if it's going for more than merchants, and try to stay in the same range as others. Since I work for SOE I don't undercut folks, I don't want to screw up the economy. I usually target being in the bottom end of asking prices if there is a sane range, or if it's out of control (there is only one L20 item up and it's 36G... I'll put in something that seems more fair).
Beyond that I do sell stacks of harvests at the 2cp cost, just to help the tradeskillers who aren't as excited about harvesting. It may not seem like much, but I usually have the space and a 50 stack of a 2cp item is a sp in a heartbeat when somoene needs more beans. Selling food is fun too.
Re: Grimwell sez...
I haven't noticed a difference yet in listing days, so maybe I'll have to pay attention this weekend and see if there is a trend.
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(Anonymous) 2007-12-13 08:08 am (UTC)(link)All I'm saying is that just because you can't see their logic, or it doesn't match your own, doesn't mean there isn't any.
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actually....
(Anonymous) 2007-12-13 02:13 pm (UTC)(link)I tried WoW for a few months, and I think that I prefer their Auction house to the EQ2 broker.
With the Broker, as you explain above, everyone is trying to undercut everyone else. Why? because while you need to sell for a decent amount, if you are charging more than everyone else, you won't sell anything. So to sell anything at all you need to make sure that your price is below everyone elses (or at least near the bottom of the price list)
EQ2 is a Buyer's Market.
With WoW they have the auction system. The price of your product is always changing because, well, it's an auction. With EQ2 the seller has to constantly recheck their items to ensure they aren't pricing themselves out of the market. With WoW the BUYER has to recheck the items they are interested in to ensure they get what they want. The market fluctuates much much more dynamically for each item. The fairness of what you made off an item was easier because the market decided whether an item would sell for high or low. This made it very difficult to be constantly undercut (unless someone set a ridiculously low buynow price).
While I can't really complain about the Broker in EQ2 too much, I do have to say, a auction system seems to benefit everyone more. While the broker system seems to only benefit the buyer
Re: actually....
I agree that the AH may seem like a better option because it's more of a buyers market, but it still suffers from horrible inflation as well. Here's a thread (http://vnboards.ign.com/wow_general_board/b19789/105559720/p1/?25) over on the WoW Vault forums that talks about pricing caps for AH because things are getting out of hand there. While it's nice that a desired item can be bid up depending on how badly someone wants to purchase it, that is also dependent on people being able to afford the minimum starting bid in the first place. In both markets - broker and AH - someone has to constantly check the prices to make sure they haven't been priced out of the purchase; it just differs on who has to be actively doing the checking.
Either you as seller have to constantly check your prices or you as buyer have to constantly check on your bids, but there is a lot of effort in either case. With the broker, you can keep pricing the item down until it reaches a desirable price for someone to purchase. The AH though, an item can easily get priced out of reach for all but a very select level of buyer. The AH bidding wars are one of the reasons that purchasing gold from farmers can become so popular.
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Grimwell sez
(Anonymous) 2007-12-14 04:40 am (UTC)(link)Pricing days... Monday is the day to buy, because everyone who played all weekend and put their stuff on the broker undercut each other. Prices are low. Sweep the stuff that sells fast up at the cheap price. Friday is the day to sell, the cheap stuff is gone and prices are up, so you relist the stuff you bought cheap on Monday, but list it at the Friday price. Before everyone gets home from work.
Then they buy it at that price and start using it in their weekend of adventure and fun. Again, everyone is happy and you are flipping some easy cash. You don't even have to leave the broker to do this. You can make a good profit by just standing there and logging in on those two days to adjust things.